StatusNethttp://sn.1w6.org/api/statusnet/conversation/69180.atomUnterhaltung2024-03-29T10:22:06+00:00http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/commenthttp://quitter.se/notice/2922830@<span class="vcard"><a href="http://quitter.se/user/114771" class="url" title="Laura Arjona"><span class="fn nickname mention">larjona</span></a></span> I trust !<span class="vcard"><a href="http://legadolibre.com.ar/group/307/id" class="url" title="debian (debian)"><span class="fn nickname group">Debian</span></a></span> will keep supporting the sysv startup, otherwise there'd be a problem with Debian GNU/kFreeBSD + HURD.http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/post2014-09-23T18:14:17+00:002014-09-23T18:14:17+00:00http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/personhttp://quitter.se/user/113454mcscxmcscxmcscx♂Germanyhttp://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/commenthttp://quitter.se/notice/2920375@<span class="vcard"><a href="http://quitter.se/user/117814" class="url" title="Eric Jönsson"><span class="fn nickname mention">ericj</span></a></span> did you choose Expert Installation? And did you end up with, systemd?http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/post2014-09-22T18:54:02+00:002014-09-22T18:54:02+00:00http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/personhttp://quitter.se/user/113454mcscxmcscxmcscx♂Germanyhttp://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/commenthttp://oracle.skilledtests.com/notice/672823@drak there are still things I don't understand ;-) what I also don't understand is applications* having a direct dependency on systemd. But I'm not really going to dive in in an effort to understand all this in detail - I've read eno<a href="http://sn.1w6.org/attachment/3041" class="attachment more" title="Mehr anzeigen">…</a>http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/post2014-09-22T17:39:36+00:002014-09-22T17:39:36+00:00http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/personhttp://oracle.skilledtests.com/user/2368mkmkmkTemporarily lost photographer. Thanks to Erkan for providing me with a temporary home while I have not been able to set up my own SN instance yet. [note: I do use some 'self tags' and 'people tags' but I do *not* use any "lists" - those are a SN misinterpretation of … Amsterdam, NL, Terrahomepagehttp://wiki.unsim.pl/truehttp://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/commenthttp://quitter.se/notice/2919919@<span class="vcard"><a href="http://quitter.se/user/113454" class="url" title="McScx"><span class="fn nickname mention">mcscx</span></a></span> For what it's worth, I installed #<span class="tag"><a href="http://quitter.se/tag/debian" rel="tag">Debian</a></span> netinstall recently, it never asked for my preferred init system.http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/post2014-09-22T15:38:45+00:002014-09-22T15:38:45+00:00http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/personhttp://quitter.se/user/117814ericjericjericjScandinaviahomepagehttp://www.acc.umu.se/~ericjtruehttp://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/commenthttp://quitter.se/notice/2919900@<span class="vcard"><a href="http://quitter.se/user/113454" class="url" title="McScx"><span class="fn nickname mention">mcscx</span></a></span> the technical committee expects that maintiners support the other init systems too. See <a href="http://www.debian.org/devel/tech-ctte" title="http://www.debian.org/devel/tech-ctte" rel="nofollow external">http://www.debian.org/devel/tech-ctte</a>http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/post2014-09-22T15:29:37+00:002014-09-22T15:29:37+00:00http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/personhttp://quitter.se/user/114771larjonalarjonalarjonaTrying to live according to the Golden Rule Free, Libre, Open Source SoftwareMadrid, Spainhomepagehttp://larjona.wordpress.comtruehttp://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/commenthttp://sn.1w6.org/notice/83739@<span class="vcard"><a href="http://oracle.skilledtests.com/mk" class="url" title="Temporary Marjolein"><span class="fn nickname mention">mk</span></a></span> That sounds as if some backstabbing happened using ifupdown¹ and openssh-server to hurt openrc. ¹: Anthony Towns was Release Engineer at Red Hat.http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/post2014-09-22T15:23:20+00:002014-09-22T15:23:20+00:00http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/personhttp://sn.1w6.org/user/1drak32.98333 49.13333drakdrakhomepagehttp://1w6.org/uzanto/draktruehttp://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/commenthttp://oracle.skilledtests.com/notice/672578@<span class="vcard"><a href="http://sn.1w6.org///drak" class="url" title="drak"><span class="fn nickname mention">drak</span></a></span>. *exactly* - you need to split up things, possibly in layers, so that one layer can be in place before the layer on top can load. But the init system cannot do that - only a redesign of the services themselves (and that is way harder than creating just a new init system)http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/post2014-09-22T14:45:19+00:002014-09-22T14:45:19+00:00http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/personhttp://oracle.skilledtests.com/user/2368mkmkmkTemporarily lost photographer. Thanks to Erkan for providing me with a temporary home while I have not been able to set up my own SN instance yet. [note: I do use some 'self tags' and 'people tags' but I do *not* use any "lists" - those are a SN misinterpretation of … Amsterdam, NL, Terrahomepagehttp://wiki.unsim.pl/truehttp://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/commenthttp://oracle.skilledtests.com/notice/672564@drak ha! also on that page I read: "recently, some dependency change in the sysvinit source package made the situation more complicated: ifupdown and openssh-server depends on a version of sysv-rc, which makes it impossible to instal<a href="http://sn.1w6.org/attachment/3036" class="attachment more" title="Mehr anzeigen">…</a>http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/post2014-09-22T14:36:27+00:002014-09-22T14:36:27+00:00http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/personhttp://oracle.skilledtests.com/user/2368mkmkmkTemporarily lost photographer. Thanks to Erkan for providing me with a temporary home while I have not been able to set up my own SN instance yet. [note: I do use some 'self tags' and 'people tags' but I do *not* use any "lists" - those are a SN misinterpretation of … Amsterdam, NL, Terrahomepagehttp://wiki.unsim.pl/truehttp://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/commenthttp://sn.1w6.org/notice/83725you cannot *prevent* circular dependencies: If A needs B needs A, the system can’t start. You can just try to split up stuff.http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/post2014-09-22T14:33:44+00:002014-09-22T14:33:44+00:00http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/personhttp://sn.1w6.org/user/1drak32.98333 49.13333drakdrakhomepagehttp://1w6.org/uzanto/draktruehttp://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/commenthttp://oracle.skilledtests.com/notice/672557@drak I also read on that page: "The transition should be very easy if we decide to get rid of the old sysv-rc package. Just have sysv-rc become a transition package which depends on OpenRC, and let everyone upgrade." Which clearly de<a href="http://sn.1w6.org/attachment/3035" class="attachment more" title="Mehr anzeigen">…</a>http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/post2014-09-22T14:33:41+00:002014-09-22T14:33:41+00:00http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/personhttp://oracle.skilledtests.com/user/2368mkmkmkTemporarily lost photographer. Thanks to Erkan for providing me with a temporary home while I have not been able to set up my own SN instance yet. [note: I do use some 'self tags' and 'people tags' but I do *not* use any "lists" - those are a SN misinterpretation of … Amsterdam, NL, Terrahomepagehttp://wiki.unsim.pl/truehttp://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/commenthttp://oracle.skilledtests.com/notice/672551@drak loading that page the first I see is a script using depend() - interesting, but can such a mechanism prevent circular dependencies? I think not. Again: it's the services themselves that need to be taken into account, and possibl<a href="http://sn.1w6.org/attachment/3034" class="attachment more" title="Mehr anzeigen">…</a>http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/post2014-09-22T14:31:28+00:002014-09-22T14:31:28+00:00http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/personhttp://oracle.skilledtests.com/user/2368mkmkmkTemporarily lost photographer. Thanks to Erkan for providing me with a temporary home while I have not been able to set up my own SN instance yet. [note: I do use some 'self tags' and 'people tags' but I do *not* use any "lists" - those are a SN misinterpretation of … Amsterdam, NL, Terrahomepagehttp://wiki.unsim.pl/truehttp://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/commenthttp://sn.1w6.org/notice/83720@<span class="vcard"><a href="http://oracle.skilledtests.com/mk" class="url" title="Temporary Marjolein"><span class="fn nickname mention">mk</span></a></span> #<span class="tag"><a href="http://sn.1w6.org/tag/openrc" rel="tag">OpenRC</a></span> offers roughly the same features as #<span class="tag"><a href="http://sn.1w6.org/tag/systemd" rel="tag">systemd</a></span>, but with simple enhancements to init scripts instead of NIH NIH. So it’s possible to do this right - but #<span class="tag"><a href="http://sn.1w6.org/tag/systemd" rel="tag">systemd</a></span> does not even try. See <a href="https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem/openrc#How_OpenRC_works:_Example_runscript" title="https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem/openrc#How_OpenRC_works:_Example_runscript" rel="nofollow external">https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem/openrc#How_OpenRC_works:_Example_runscript</a>http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/post2014-09-22T14:16:29+00:002014-09-22T14:16:29+00:00http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/personhttp://sn.1w6.org/user/1drak32.98333 49.13333drakdrakhomepagehttp://1w6.org/uzanto/draktruehttp://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/commenthttp://oracle.skilledtests.com/notice/672532@franko so why does "everyone" go for systemd? My guess is that starting afresh is seen as an opportunity to get rid of the old cobwebs of interrelated processes, possibly forgetting that the init system itself cannot solve the interr<a href="http://sn.1w6.org/attachment/3030" class="attachment more" title="Mehr anzeigen">…</a>http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/post2014-09-22T14:08:31+00:002014-09-22T14:08:31+00:00http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/personhttp://oracle.skilledtests.com/user/2368mkmkmkTemporarily lost photographer. Thanks to Erkan for providing me with a temporary home while I have not been able to set up my own SN instance yet. [note: I do use some 'self tags' and 'people tags' but I do *not* use any "lists" - those are a SN misinterpretation of … Amsterdam, NL, Terrahomepagehttp://wiki.unsim.pl/truehttp://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/commenthttp://oracle.skilledtests.com/notice/672528@franko I think any init system by its nature is scary - you not only have to start (and stop, restart, reload etc.) a lot of services, but some of those services can be dependant on each other, and before you know it, you end up with<a href="http://sn.1w6.org/attachment/3029" class="attachment more" title="Mehr anzeigen">…</a>http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/post2014-09-22T14:05:50+00:002014-09-22T14:05:50+00:00http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/personhttp://oracle.skilledtests.com/user/2368mkmkmkTemporarily lost photographer. Thanks to Erkan for providing me with a temporary home while I have not been able to set up my own SN instance yet. [note: I do use some 'self tags' and 'people tags' but I do *not* use any "lists" - those are a SN misinterpretation of … Amsterdam, NL, Terrahomepagehttp://wiki.unsim.pl/truehttp://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/commenthttp://sn.1w6.org/notice/83716@franko @<span class="vcard"><a href="http://oracle.skilledtests.com/mk" class="url" title="Temporary Marjolein"><span class="fn nickname mention">mk</span></a></span> @<span class="vcard"><a href="http://quitter.se/mcscx" class="url" title="McScx"><span class="fn nickname mention">mcscx</span></a></span> @<span class="vcard"><a href="https://sn.pztrn.name/" class="url" title="pztrn"><span class="fn nickname mention">pztrn</span></a></span> I think the main reasons why debian switched to systemd are raw programmer hours (paid redhat work) and very active advocacy (there’s a youtube video where the main systemd developer attacks a critical speaker with the full arsenal of rhetoric tactics).http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/post2014-09-22T14:02:14+00:002014-09-22T14:02:14+00:00http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/personhttp://sn.1w6.org/user/1drak32.98333 49.13333drakdrakhomepagehttp://1w6.org/uzanto/draktruehttp://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/commenthttp://quitter.se/notice/2919697@<span class="vcard"><a href="http://oracle.skilledtests.com/mk" class="url" title="Temporary Marjolein"><span class="fn nickname mention">mk</span></a></span> @<span class="vcard"><a href="http://sn.1w6.org///drak" class="url" title="drak"><span class="fn nickname mention">drak</span></a></span> @<span class="vcard"><a href="http://quitter.se/user/113454" class="url" title="McScx"><span class="fn nickname mention">mcscx</span></a></span> @pztrn Must cnfess I don't rlly understand init process, but sm of it DOES look scary. How comes evrybdy went for systemd?http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/post2014-09-22T13:23:17+00:002014-09-22T13:23:17+00:00http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/personhttp://quitter.se/user/121557frankofrankofrankopoet, student, anarchist, free software enthusiast, etc... My #micropoetry ( #mikropoezija) looks best in !qvitter. Check it out!Croatiahomepagehttps://128bit.noblogs.org/truehttp://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/commenthttp://quitter.se/notice/2919585@<span class="vcard"><a href="https://quitter.no/dragnucs" class="url" title="dragnucs"><span class="fn nickname mention">dragnucs</span></a></span> if a systemv startup is failing I can comment out lines in scripts, disable scripts (by renaming), etc. It's "intuitive" for me.http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/post2014-09-22T12:22:25+00:002014-09-22T12:22:25+00:00http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/personhttp://quitter.se/user/113454mcscxmcscxmcscx♂Germanyhttp://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/commenthttp://quitter.se/notice/2919582@<span class="vcard"><a href="https://quitter.no/dragnucs" class="url" title="dragnucs"><span class="fn nickname mention">dragnucs</span></a></span> source of C programs is already much more complicated than shell scripts. And @<span class="vcard"><a href="http://sn.1w6.org///drak" class="url" title="drak"><span class="fn nickname mention">drak</span></a></span>'s link talks about a single point of failurehttp://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/post2014-09-22T12:20:38+00:002014-09-22T12:20:38+00:00http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/personhttp://quitter.se/user/113454mcscxmcscxmcscx♂Germanyhttp://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/commenttag:quitter.no,2014-09-22:noticeId=11359:objectType=comment@<a href="http://quitter.se/mcscx" class="h-card mention" title="McScx">mcscx</a> @<a href="http://oracle.skilledtests.com/mk" class="h-card mention" title="Temporary Marjolein">mk</a> @<a href="http://sn.1w6.org///drak" class="h-card mention" title="drak">drak</a> Ain't it open source? You can get the source of the file and look at it.http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/post2014-09-22T12:14:05+00:002014-09-22T12:14:05+00:00http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/personhttps://quitter.no/user/633dragnucsdragnucsdragnucsFree & Open source Software, #FSF member, Martial Arts, !HeavyMetal, Privacy, Sino-Vietnamese Kung-Fu. عربيةMoroccohttp://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/commenthttp://quitter.se/notice/2919547@<span class="vcard"><a href="http://oracle.skilledtests.com/mk" class="url" title="Temporary Marjolein"><span class="fn nickname mention">mk</span></a></span> I want a system I can debug, should it fail. It's not enough to me if it "usually works", like windowshttp://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/post2014-09-22T11:56:14+00:002014-09-22T11:56:14+00:00http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/personhttp://quitter.se/user/113454mcscxmcscxmcscx♂Germany