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@moonman @augustus @clacke democracy's been polluted in a way that the common people don't give a damn, we've lost control over our votes
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I see democracy as the form of organization which minimizes the necessary oppression: If you deem the self-determination of all people equally important then any movement away from one-person-one-vote makes group decisions worse for the aggregated group.
ghostdancer gefällt das. -
@drak @ghostdancer Democracy was sort of founded to safe-guard civil rights. It's been proving remarkably difficult to have democracy not undermine civil rights.
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Founding democracy to safe-guard civil rights isn’t what I learned. In Athens and in the Paris commune, it was to curb the power of nobles.
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democracy literally means "rule by the people", not "rights to the people". General rights you can rely on are in the interest of most people, therefore they are a typical outcome of an informed democratic process, but they are not required to have a democracy.
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@drak That's what I'm talking about. The desire for democracy is not without an aim, at least not historically, it's a means to securing rights that "are in the interest of most people". Once we had democracy, people clamored more rights…
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What do you mean by "clamored"? Democracy means that the people decide what is done. Do you mean your rights are infringed by the majority?
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@drak That is the classical liberal, neoliberal, and libertarian viewpoint when a social democracy increases taxes to do wealth distribution or to perform state functions not necessary to secure negative rights, and when it forbids certain types of trade or enforces monopolies.
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We’re talking about democracy here (people decide), not about the libertarian view what people should decide. If they can convince the majority of people that it is in their interest to give libertarians these rights, then in a democracy they’ll get them.
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Going by the employer-friendly liberal party in Germany, social security and supporting people in need is part of the liberal viewpoint: https://www.liberale.de/content/sozialpolitik
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