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@lohang I read that. It's nonsense. They don't even understand what satire is, or why Charlie Hebdo's satire matters. In fact, it's an example 'media propaganda' - something they supposedly reject but practice themselves.
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@hosh@quitter.no if we require people to mind sensibilities, where does that stop? Are my sensibilities worth the same? I cringe when someone says “god” - does that mean we will ban saying the word “god”? Are people abusing their freedom who invoke god in a conversation with me?
mk gefällt das. -
drak gefällt das.
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Hi drak: I see I'm not very good at this; somehow your @handle did not register properly, so you did not receive the response - but look at the conversation again "in context" and I think what I wrote earlier should show up. - Cheers.
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ok - it might just be due to interaction between several platforms. I actually write from http://sn.1w6.org
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I don’t think you disqualify - if we wait until we have all information before discussing something, we can never start discussing. More important is the reaction to new information and ideas and the willingness to think it through. And I think you did pretty well at both.
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@hosh@quitter.no to be sure you reach me from anywhere in the !fediverse, you can use @drak@sn.1w6.org
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testing @drak@sn.1w6.org thanks - yes, it's nice also to be having a broader conversation than often happens on our networks. But at 4:10 PM here, it's time again to take the dog for a walk before sundown...
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no problems - it’s nice to have some solid real-life things to ground you when the call of duty is about to waste another day ☺ http://xkcd.com/386/ (also the message worked ☺)
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@mk @expatpaul @kris @drak@sn.1w6.org Today I was talking to (actually interviewing, though I'm not usually a journalist) a Palestinian in the West Bank and I asked him about his reaction to the Charlie Hebdo affair. He's a moderate Muslim belon…
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@hosh I'm pretty sure Charlie Hebdo didn't poke fun at the Holocaust, though. They even fired a cartoonist for relatively mild comments that may be interpreted as anti-semitic: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/aug/03/france.pressandpublishing
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in short: Cultures are different. Should we change ours because other people don’t like it? If they don’t like it, they can simply decide not to look at it. It’s not like we knock at their doors and shove the caricatures into their faces. Religious people do that…
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for stuff which is painted to a public wall the people living in that place have to find a compromise. For a newspaper you can always decide not to read it. What people banning speech try to do is to disallow other people most whom they’ll likely never meet to read something.
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that’s their choice. Just like an islamic magazine can choose to fire someone for making fun of the prophet. But “we don’t publish jokes about that” is very different from “we don’t allow you to publish jokes about that”.
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we don’t have full free speech in Europe (see http://draketo.de/politik/charliehebdo ) but the lowest common denominator isn’t an option.
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Title page of the newest issue of #CharlieHebdo: http://taz.de/!152792/
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@drak ah, excellent! I'm not even goin g to try to get my hands on this issue: only 500 copies have been allocated to the Netherlands, one bookseller had an order for 200! #fegedaboudit
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@drak As far as I know, only Christians do that! I've traveled in many muslim countries, visited mosques, nobody ever asked me to even consider becoming a Muslim. Same in Buddhist (not strictly a religion) and Hindu areas. Same with N…
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A friend of mine had to convert to marry the love of his life.
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@drak not the same thing as prosytelizing or "mission" though; and is your friend now Muslim or Jewish?
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muslim
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requiring same religion on marriage spreads the religion through family ties via social pressure - the catholic church gave up on that.
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@drak indeed, as you say, it's mostly "social pressure", not religion *itself* that does this. But it does happen in both Islamic and Jewish communities. OTH there are religions that it's not even possible to convert to (and where onl…
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@drak still, Christianity is the only religion I know of where people go out prosytelising (unrelated to social institutions like marriage), and where such a thing as "mission" exists (which unfortunately does both damage and good)
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@drak You're completely right, and people often confuse this point: its one thing to have the legal right to write a thing, and another for a given magazine/web site/forum to publish it. I think everyone should have the right to deny the…
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@drak I merely replied to the specific point that I don't believe they ever made a joke about the Holocaust. This is also goes to wider thing that they perhaps weren't "equal opportunity" jokers, they seemed to be more sensitive about mo…
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I think the limits of free speech are where it actually does harm (like spreading lies about people with the *intention* to harm them).
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If for example a TV-show says that you are a murderer though you are innocent (or not proven guilty by a court), then it steps over the boundaries of free speech, because you have no chance of ever setting this right in a way which reaches all previous viewers.
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for equal opportunity: They excluded one topic from mocking (likely historical reasons) but pretty much dished out into all other directions
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